[j0]

Originally Posted by DG

Me. I dont believe in direct Social Work. Smart Young people are wasted here.

Well to be quite frank...smart people do not exist in this sector at all.
Good-hearted, well-intentioned people do...not smart people. How is a nun from the remote corner of Kerela, who can barely speak Hindi and non-existent English possibly tutor or assist the 30 orphans under her purview in any subject that's part of their English or Hindi medium curriculum??
Is this smart?
I've shouted it from the rooftops on the Baroda thread to no avail, hence you might have noticed that I clearly stated no one here is trying to convert anyone.

I am looking for people like Don, who have atleast made the effort to do things right in their own life. As I said before this is about creating a haven for those disaffected & disgusted, who might still believe in living a life worth living.

People come in all shapes and sizes, and not all of em find the prospect of minting a lil money doing some shit corporate monkeyjob.
I'm not even asking anyone to give up on that aspect, hell even I work in the corporate world now... but is that enough... am I doing enough... do I not aspire for more in life?
Hell yes I do.

I'll ask you simply...stick to your cushy corporate job and all, but do you on the personal front do a god damned thing ?? Do you accept plastic, overuse and abuse your vehicle, do you have a waste-disposal mechanism in your neighbourhood, do you save water and electricity?? Do you actually give a thought to anything other than what's under your belt?

DG I doubt you would even get it since your grand plan is to run away from this cesspool to a land which was created by a better and greater people, but once the numbers of your like-minded submissive, online mouth-shooting, political pussyfooters permeate through the populace... the social infrastructure built by foreseeing giants will crumble because the system is only as good as those who make it up.
Where will you run then?

I'll tell you what "I" want...
I have for the most part been a very conscientious person, but I never really went out of my way to do anything to back it up. When I was about 17, I went through this silent revolution in my head.
I saw how screwed up the world was, I wanted to do things... I did all sorts of crazyass stuff just to prove to myself that I wasn't part of the rot. That's where the environmental bit came in... I quit using plastic coldturkey. I looked up the costs of running a paper recycling plant, found paper-substitute makers... I was so damn naive that I tried to put together something called "Trash-busters" to do something about the miserable waste management in the vicinity.
My friend told me that, yaar idea to accha hein magar sab log humme kachrawaala samjhenge.
And after three furious months...it all ended.
I scared myself, coz I had nothing, no support, not a damn person who would encourage me... so it all fizzled out.
All I was left with is that, till this date I follow some basic environment friendly rules.

What a frikkin waste...all that enthusiasm, all that passion to make a change... why should anything with such irresistible power be allowed to go to waste.
I want every 17 year old kid with some kookie idea to better his world to have the knowledge that there are people like him, who will back him to the hilt.

I want to create a platform here and now...for all you guys, a platform that gives you hope, that look you are not alone...Don you are not isolated... there are hundreds and thousands of us in pockets across the country.
It's just that we don't see each other, so we don't know that there are more like us.
So I'm telling you ... these people do exist.

Some of us might want to make changes in their own life and suffice with that. I totally respect that.
Some of us might have some ambition to be part of something far more glorious. I totally support that.

But, in my opinion there is a flaw in the argument since the way the system is run depends on those who run it rather than the type of system(this is not to deny that for particular situations some systems are better than others). So even if we have a new system in place it won't be long before even that detoriates and lead to corruption. We seem to find ways to corrupt every system in one way or the other. The politicians we have are a reflection of the society and as someone earlier has pointed out we deserve it b'coz of our 'chalta hai' attitucde.

You say that the people who run the system corrupt it and then you say it is we and our chalta hai attitude which is to blame?
Who elects the damn system?? Who submits to corruption and hence even brings it into existence?
It is only us...we are the system.
We the ones who are suffering because of our abused right to universal suffrage.
It is a joke blaming the people who run the system when you put them there in the first place.

why the hell i am learning a foreign lang?

You are learning a foreign language to facilitate easier comprehension, as a sign that you are interested in the world outside you, and as a signal to a foreign counterpart that you have respect for their ways and hence a mutual bonhomie.

why the hell i don't join politics? why the hell i don't join an NGO? just why the hell.....
its the pity "survival"

I say why the hell not???
What is truly stopping you...believe me buddy, you ain't gonna be starving on the streets if you join an NGO, you get frikkin dollar salaries in a fair few of em.
Join politics if that's what you want...why in God's name don't you want to do what you really want to.
If you aren't doing what you wanted to do, you're not surviving...you're dying every minute you live.

All I am saying is start small, start with yourself, once that's done we'll sack this goddamned nation.

Thank you Umpire for posting your views.

All of you people who have been conspicuous by your absence, quit counting votes and throw in a line.


Remember these golden words in bold black text "It is only about initiative".

Regards
Johan

[EuPhOrIa]

Originally Posted by donB

We dont need a conference. We dont need no political party. We dont need any organisation or complication.

I have a fire in my belly. I am ambitious. I want to achieve things in life. No I dont want a big bungalow and a Merc. I wud love but thats not what i want. Neither do i want to do social work all my life. I want to achieve in the corporate world. But Im gonna do that on my terms. I shall not bend nor brook anything that affects my conscience. But Im afraid that I will bend because I will find myself isolated. Because the people around me will ask me to think of my family and its future. They would want me to conform to society. They would tell me im an ordinary middle class man and cannot change society nor fight the system.

All I would like to know is that there are men like me out there going for their dreams with the same sense of morality. That would give me a purpose and reason that we are all small parts of the Big Plan for a better future for our society and our country. Its nothing ... just live your life and go for your dreams. Dont sell your soul for it. Coz when im in a dilemma if i should...at least i would be reminded that im not the only fighting it out.

I would also talk on the line of Zango...why don't we need a party? I firmly believe that we can change the system by piercing into the system and existing and surviving there.

I appreciate the views of urs probably because I am one of those who has fire in his belly to do something for the nation. I have full agreement for your view bout change at an individual level. I remember the case when my friends gathered at one food parlor and they started throwing milkshake cups around just for the reason they didn't walk upto the dustbin...I asked them but they laughed it out...I started collecting thsoe cups from the road and by the time I parked them into the bin, I had all the friends promising that they won't at least make the roads dirty ever!! It was just a bit of action n few words that did the wonder...

so, there won't be any occassion when you will be isolated for Virtues and gooddoings!! You won't be bent because you don't have followers...you will stand tall amidst any emergency that the world is facing coz u have never been guilty...


[QUOTE=DesiGuru]
The youthful can succeed in any chosen field if they channelise all their energies to it.
QUOTE]

I do agree...but u need a right direction and a great leader thats what we don't have!!

So firstly my views, if you are serious about one particular area your full focus should be that area. Me. I dont believe in direct Social Work. Smart Young people are wasted here. Its a good enough field for others, but these are my views and i wouldnt discourage anyone who is interested. The disinterest in social work is more because smart people cause more change in society by getting into business and politics than direct social work.

see here...u r a pot of energy!! but, guess, u have lost the direction or a bit disgressed (of course, this is not to impose my ideology on you, plz don't take it that way.)

Now that you would agree that we have hell lotsa probs at Sociat n political fronts than we have them at economical front. Now, if you say that smart young ppl would be wasted in those areas, I have no compelling reason to believe that. We need the best talent to work in thsoe fields coz we have got a problem there!! Try to form an analogy with the production plant...have u ever worked? seen a major breakdown? There is a one, though a smaller one, and you would find all the ppl right from the president to an operator being thhere or telephoning tehre till it gets over...so we need the best talent for the trouble shooting.

So now about politics and business. Repeating again, you cant do one and do the other part time. You could but then you would have a feeble chance of making a real change in any of the areas.
So depending on your thinking style and the vision of change you can bring about, you should go for business or politics.

and ya, I am a firm believer that there is not only one role (as DG said) that you have to play...u would have to be businessman, politician, social worker and many more...now, i don't know wen, how and for how long...thats all subjective and it could be in phases and it could be at a time.

1. A Great Leader. No, there has not been a single great leader in india for the past 2000 years. Very good, Good, Excellent, Interesting leaders are everywhere. Gandhi is actually one of india's fundamental problems. He was a honourable man.

May be coz lot of ppl thought that smart young great leader may get wasted and therefore we don't have so far.

2. New thinking. Well shock me!

I exhort you to think different that the talent would not be wasted but utilized for the best for the country and for the human beings of this country. Think again buddy!!

[EuPhOrIa]

Originally Posted by umpire

2)What they see to be the bane of it?
I firmly believe it is the "sleepy middle class". nd i am very much part of it.. It is almost visible to all of us what kinda problems( political, socal nd economical) is our country facing.. There is "needless boasting" that the media keeps barking every now & then..
I think we all r a part of our usual Hindi line " ye aaisa hai wo waisa hai"

This has something to do with the psyche or "shaped up mentality"...refer Alwin Tofler and you would understand that how difficul to change those minds!!

4) the simple solutions for purportedly huge problems?

Population, ya it may really seem as if what is new in stating such a problem which is around for yrs, but i was dyin to post it sumwhere, where i can unearth the CII-FICCI "seminar boasters" to sum hard reality...

The boaster often cited-- we hv 60 % of population under the age of 25..
The reality- more than 80% of which lives in villages, more than 70% of which is uneducated.

You really can't change those minds, as i said above, but you can centainly utilize and train these 60% mind - let 70% of these be uneducated and let 80% of these be in village...we can teach them "how to love the nation" and what is importan for the nation irrespective of their qualification and location, can't we?

A huge % of India is actually this


http://www.pagalguy.com/index.php?ca...2_articleid=61




which these people forget to mention abt.

Bottomline-- All problems today r associated with this problem of Population, we hv to curb it at any cost by any means, b it jailin people who don't abide..

Don't expect hungry stumock to listen to you fundas ever!! Feed them first and then expect them to listen. That is the reason, we said we can't change the country overnight. We'd have to start at a local level, still being integrated with the greater world and aiming high. You can work on this change while you achieve a lot on economic front so as to feed those whome u expect to listen to u for the betterment of them. Once you have fed them, then only u can teach how to earn a square meal even!!!

6) Anything you might think that is relevant...causes that need backing, situations that need to be looked into, anything that holds your heart.

anything that holds my heart-- why the hell i am learning a foreign lang? why the hell i am doin an MBA, why the hell i don't join politics? why the hell i don't join an NGO? just why the hell.....
its the pity "survival"

j0 did a nice job here...I agree with his viewpoint.

[donB]

Originally Posted by zango

Why don't we? Do you think the system will reform itself - do you think your input to the country will be restricted to yourself and that is going to serve the purpose? I would like to believe so - but i don't think it is going to work out in this fashion.

For one, I dont think the system wud reform itself, but the first step is having one's own affairs in order before goin to look for things to solve in a society. Personal discipline ensures that when we try to do something as a group, we individually realise what it is we are fighting for. What we are up against. Sure we all know the problems. But how many of us have personally come up against it.

I guess from my argument u wud realise that i have no problems with any organisation but im more concerned about the quality of the people we might have there.

yes, there are people like you out there. I can speak for myself. But then, there are certain things in the system which are wrong - where you have to break the rules to be right - what do you do then? Do you want the rules to change or do you live by the rules?

Im sure the above statement is not exactly what you meant but breaking rules is not the answer. We have to fight within the rules. If we break the rules then we get shut out more easily. We wud only give more ammo to the other side against us. A sustained campaign within the system is what i wud advocate. It wud take much longer but i believe the result wud be worth it. Society needs change. It has to come from within. Anything enforced wud only create more problems.

[estranged_gnrs]

Moi listening...very carefully and intently.To all of this.I know age doesnt matter,But i can understand and relate how Johan felt when he was 17 and how he feels when he is 21.Me a 25 year oldie btw.

Pour your thoughts,and thanks to Euphoria,donB and others for putting in their views.Am sure we have got more to think about now.

Dream dreams noone could ever see,and make it a reality.Come on people,pour in.We need more viewpoints.IF you dont agree to this,come here and tear us apart.We need your views as well your criticism.

Rohit.

[Ranjitha]

ok here it is, my take on it.
excuse me if I sound a little (!) incoherent!

1)What they think about the present political scenario?

It isn't perfect. Ok, it's lousy. And even that is an understatement. We're reduced to voting for the lesser evil. Which means we have all kinds of people "representing" us. Criminals. Gangsters. People who couldn't care less, but are in power because of their family has clout. People who believe their work ends once they're in power.
Corruption, casteism, communalism, regionalism.
Many people just don't want to vote anymore, because they believe that no one is worth electing. I've heard- though I don't know how far it's true- that in Chennai, during the last national elections, there was a "None of the above" option. Maybe that says it all.

2)What they see to be the bane of it?

IMHO, the most important problem that we're facing isn't corruption, or anything of that sort. It's disillusionment. We (at least the youth) are resigned to the "fact" that we can't do anything anymore that will make a difference- because the rot has set in. We need to realise, and believe that we can make a difference, if only we want to, and make a conscious effort to.


3) what they would personally do (not hava mein)?

I don't really know, and I can't say right now. Because I've never been in such a situation. But I do know, that I'd be willing to work towards it. I'll be honest here - I wouldn't leave home/ quit job/ starve for something like this, but yes, I would do as much as would be within my reach. Begin with small things, maybe. Like donB said.

4) the simple solutions for purportedly huge problems?

There isn't any simple solution anymore. Because the big picture is complicated. All I can say is, we need to believe we can make a difference. After all, a journey of a thousand miles begins but with a single step. Once we begin, we can actually go somewhere, achieve something.

5) Your feelings on activism...have you been part of anything?

No. not really.

What length would you go to?
see question 3

will get back with more inputs later.

PS- j0, this is a great idea As I was saying to Zango, this post has made me (and I'm sure I'm not the only one) think about many things I hadn't given a thought to before :smile:

[j0]

Come on people,pour in.We need more viewpoints.IF you dont agree to this,come here and tear us apart.We need your views as well your criticism.

Damn straight Rohit.

Let me relate to you the mentality of the passive "chalta hai-er".

There are two varieties here...the ones who haven't tried anything in their life and are piss scared to do anything or the ones who tried and got burnt.

The latter is far more dangerous.

A former friend of mine was very active when the MAMC rape took place,to the unititated this was the case where a medical student got raped by some shits within her own college grounds in broad daylight.
She was the Gen Sec for her college and lead a march on the concerned Ministry getting good media coverage as she was seen screaming at the CM on NDTv Aaj Tak etc. She also managed landing up on We the People.
Well her family saw all this, the reaction was ...Pagal ho gayi hein kya? do you want get raped as well or what now?
The officials there who saw her outburst asked her for her name...her idiot classmates who had come along just for the ride, went and volunteered it.
The dean would be waiting for 2 hours in the college till she got back to have a chat with her.
If the matter had gone further she'd have been thrown out of college, just like that.
Needless to say that doused all the activist flames in her.

When I told her that I wanted to do something about things and knowing her history if she would take part; well there wasn't a hint of support on her part and she actually went as far as to assail me on my naivety in even considering anything could be done.

The risks are immense and I know that... but what I don't get is how people are broken so bad by the system that they will go as far as to deprecate anyone trying to change it, because they failed themselves.

To be quite honest, I am reasonably fearless about such consequences, yes I'm sure most people would think that it's trash to talk that way but maybe I know a few things bout myself too.

But frankly, I doubt if the day will ever come where any of us will be faced with mortal danger if we stay smart about what we do and how we go about doing it.
That's why we need you lot... the smarter ones to get on board...unchannelled passion and fury is great... but the need of the hour isn't on the street activism...it is about creating a moral minimum and awareness.

Btw I have had it with the people who keep chanting you do something, we'll follow.
I say F**k You.

Pardon my French but what I was to do on my own I am already going to do, I never needed you in the first place.
What we are giving you is a chance, to consolidate together and bring out into the open your own inner voice.
So quit asking questions and do something first.

You people are ruled by a system that you don't have one inkling about. What kind of education have you got when it doesn't even empower you??
So learn, improve yourself and quit getting tugged at by puppet strings.

Knowledge is power...that power we all have within our grasps.... just use it.

[dream_manager]

hi all,,,,

1)What they think about the present political scenario?
ya bit ok...
first lemme say one thing..
i first felt the last 5 years were really fine..
becoz BJP gave a full stop ( after JD) to congreess rule...
but now the position of bjp is little bad..
advaniji....no i will not talk abt him ....if i do so then our modulator will close this thread...
but i feel some single power shuld give the congress wala a tough time ...
and they must win all our hearts doing atleast some good to us....

so on the whole our scenario needs more n more imporvements...

2)What they see to be the bane of it?

yep blind beleif of the people to vote and believe a single party..
they need more reasoning and analysis...
but still things may turn the wrong side...
but still they can think twice before pressing the vote button.....

3) what they would personally do(not hava mein), ?

at the least i can expand my ideas to the people on y shld they think before they vote..

janta please use ur reasoning abilities before u caste ur vote..
dont get baised to party or any prize they sponser.....


4) the simple solutions for purportedly huge problems?

UNITY....
UNITY...
unity in reasoning and attain wat ever u need with peace and non violence...
dont just say " ok leave it"....
wat u may think is right
" speaking is eay bahi.... kya aek dhin leave maarkae.. protest mein chalane kae liyae kya mein befakuuf hei kya?"
but still it is our INDIA......

5) Your feelings on activism...have you been part of anything? What length would you go to?

not to thhe extent that i had thought of....
but still will strive for that...

6) Anything you might think that is relevant...causes that need backing, situations that need to be looked into, anything that holds your heart.

a. yep ....at the least please leave of the "quota " system...
let merit based things rule every where....

b. please make the govt officials more social to public...
atleast make them work for public atleast 100 days a year...(please ...)

regards,
DM..

[dream_manager]

Originally Posted by j0

I want people to post (intelligently) on

1)What they think about the present political scenario?

2)What they see to be the bane of it?

3) what they would personally do(not hava mein), ?

4) the simple solutions for purportedly huge problems?

5) Your feelings on activism...have you been part of anything? What length would you go to?

6) Anything you might think that is relevant...causes that need backing, situations that need to be looked into, anything that holds your heart.

jo i think u missed one critical thing tthat need to be added at this stage..
i think this must be given more imp...so m putting it as 1.

#1.. U are a young,dyanamic and ready to help the socity ....will u come front n serve the nation as a good politician?????will u stay for the truth till u r end amidst corrupt janta??

#2. wats steps u may take if u are a one day PM .....(heeeeeeee )

let us change our india and not just stop chit chatting....

regards,
DM

[donB]

Originally Posted by j0

Needless to say that doused all the activist flames in her.

When I told her that I wanted to do something about things and knowing her history if she would take part; well there wasn't a hint of support on her part and she actually went as far as to assail me on my naivety in even considering anything could be done.

But Im afraid that I will bend because I will find myself isolated. Because the people around me will ask me to think of my family and its future. They would want me to conform to society. They would tell me im an ordinary middle class man and cannot change society nor fight the system.