[BaBu]

Multiple calls-Which to choose

Courtsey-Career launcher

For those who have the luxury to choose the B Schools

The dilemma starts after one has cracked the written examination. Is it gonna be B or C, or the fight is between SPJ and MDI, or FMS is better than L. And the biggest wisecrack of them all - is A really the big bully and calls the shots?
First of all, give some time to yourself and pat your back for having achieved such a big feat. Not one but multiple calls from the big heavens of higher management education in India. And then once the reality has sunk in get on with the task and find out which is the one for you.
Career Launcher has clustered the institutes in four categories with all the institutes in one category being clearly distinct from the other, so if student has a choice between the institutes of two different categories, he/she knows clearly which category he has to go. If the choice is between institutes of the same one category, what should be the deciding criteria for selecting one institute over the other…read on.

Cluster Analysis
The B-schools are arranged into four clusters wherein the best institutes are in Cluster 1 and the lesser institutes go to Clusters 2, 3 & 4.Thus, if a student has a call choice between institutes in Cluster 1 and Cluster 2 he could go for the Cluster 1 institute. Similarly Cluster 2 institute should be preferred to Cluster 3 and Cluster 4 institutes.
In case a choice has to be made between two institutes in the same cluster, then refer to the intra-cluster analysis given below.

Cluster 1
IIM-A, IIM-B, IIM-C, IIM-L, XLRI, TISS
In this cluster, if one has a call from IIMA, he/she should not even think twice and should straight away go for it. In this cluster the big confusion is for the people who are hanging between B and C. Also the confusion is between L and XLRI. As far as TISS is concerned, one hardly has anything to worry about on two counts; one, it is second only to XLRI in the field of PM & IR and moreover they conduct their exam in the month of June by which time one would have already deposited fee with the possibility of zero refund.
Specialised courses : If you are clear of your specialization and if it is any of the following two specializations, your decision is that much more easier.
PM & IR: If one has got call from XL for PM & IR, and is interested in doing PM & IR, he could go for XL even if one has calls from IIMs and there should be little scope for doubts.
Agriculture and Rural Management: If this is the your field of action and you have got a call from PGP-Agriculture of IIMA along with some other good calls, we don't have to tell you what to do or do we have to?

B and C
As far as the IIMs are concerned there hardly is any difference amongst A, B, C, and L. Hard to believe but it is true, don't look at the highest salary figures, look at the average salary because the highest salary is received by one guy and when you look at the average salary you would find that the difference between the take home salaries of A and L would come to about Rs. 500 - 1000 per month only. Also the faculty among the IIMs is almost equally good, so is infra and so are the placements.
This difference becomes even less when it is between B and C. So we suggest that you take out your purse, choose one coin that you like the most and toss it to decide which institute to go to! If the idea seems absurd to, then just go to the place where your "Dil Chahta hai".
If you are the type where you have to rationalize your choice and think that leaving the decision on a coin is not the right thing, here are certain other pointers to help you decide.
Continuous evaluations : IIM B has got continuous evaluation system that divides the burden of studies all through the term, while C does not have any such evaluation and has got only the mid terms and the end terms. Operationally, this means that out of 100 marks for the complete term, in Bang, you would have about 20-25 for end term, about 10-15 for mid term and rest 60 will be spread out over lots of surprise tests, quizzes, presentations etc, while in Cal, the entire 100 marks would usually be split between mid term and end term examinations. The implication of this is fairly simple and one can decide, in what type of examinations one performs better.
Alumni Strength : Though both of them have equally good placements, Cal gets the advantage of about 15 years as it started that much earlier and hence that many more alumni.
Specialization : Calcutta has the best specialization for Systems and Operations while Bang has developed a niche for Finance & Corporate Planning. But these are more an indicative of the positioning efforts of the institutes than a statement upon the quality of faculty, infra or placements - the things that give a specialisation niche.
Other factors worth considering are:
-The place where it would be easier, or difficult as the case may be, for your girlfriend / boyfriend to access you, can be made your choice.
-The climate of Bang is more pleasant round the year than Calcutta.
-If you are a pucca talli, then B is the place for you to be in.
-If you find the scenic beauty of nature enchanting, catch the Joka Campus.
The reasons could be as innovative as the number of minds thinking about them, so decide what is your reason as our final word is to go to any place where you want to go.

XL (BMD) and IIM-L
IIM-L could be preferred over XLRI for the following reasons:
The name is the game : The biggest advantage that L gets is the IIM tag and hence the reputation and host of other factors like support of other IIMs, the support of government, and recognition of the industry. Also it has got one of the best administrators as its director, Dr. Preetam Singh, who made quite a name as the director of MDI. So L scores a bit above XL here.
Placements : L scores over XL on this parameter. The placements at XL are by and large restricted to Marketing and Finance and the placements in Systems are negligible.
Specialisation : If you want to specialize in systems, don't go for XL as they may not be able to get the critical batch size required for a good specialisation. As far as L is concerned all specialisations are possible.
In HR, XL scores in bounds and bounds (no leaps even) as it started muu…cchh earlier than L. However despite that it has still not been able to make a name in foreign placements, which L has done quite well in such a short span. But placements are not a limitation for both of them. Overall L scores over XL here.
L Plays (read studies) It Rough and Hard (Not that XL is a cakewalk) : L has got one of the most rigorous of curriculums and one of the most demanding study schedules, it beats even IIMA at that, and a sleep of 4-5 hours in a day is luxury at L, at least in the first year. So if you have the guts and nuts for it, go ahead and take your plunge or play (study) it safe and join XL.
Mind you, XLRI ( BMD ) is as good as IIMs when it comes to normal MBA.
Other things that may matter to you :
- Jamshedpur has the TATAs on every breath including its name while L possibly has a varied and better industry interaction.
- Lucknow is the hot bed of politics, being the capital of the most politically sensitive state in India, UP.
- The campuses are not a problem with either of them.
- As far as climate is concerned, both the places witness extremes of weather.

Cluster 2
The place under the sun: IIM-I or K > SPJ > FMS > MDI > JBIMS
Specilialised Institutes : IRMA, NITIE, IIT-B, IIT-D, IIFT, MICA.

If and only if you don't have a call from any of the Cluster 1 institutes, then should you come to Cluster 2. This includes the specialised institutes also. So even if want to go to advertising, and have calls from IIML and MICA or XLRI and MICA, you should take up IIML or XLRI.
This analysis applies to those people who have to choose between two or more Cluster 2 institutes.
If you have some specialized field in mind and are dead sure that you want to make a career only in this field, you should go ahead and join that particular institute as they have the focus for that particular field and hence everything about them in that field is good, be it faculty, placements or curriculum.
The institutes with their respective specializations are:
Foreign trade - IIFT, New Delhi
Rural Management - IRMA, Gujarat
Advertising and Public Relations - MICA, Ahmedabad, Gujarat
Operations & Systems - NITIE Bombay followed by IIT-B and IIT-D
So, if you want to specialize now, go for the above courses and don't even ponder about other institutes. However this would mean confining your scope of work for at least 10-15 years but it would also mean you becoming very good in your field. Take your bet and "fix" it up. But if you have even the slightest desire of going for general management, don't join these institutes now and go for the other institutes of this cluster because at a later stage it becomes somewhat difficult to change your course and your career.
As far as other institutes are considered, here it follows.
IIM-I
Being an IIM, this obviously wins the name game and scores above rest of the non-IIM institutes. It has an excellent infrastructure and a small batch size ensures the personal attention of faculty. This apart, Indore is an industrial town and hence the opportunities for institute - industry interaction are better. Also it is fully residential and placements are becoming better and better with each year. It also had the distiction of the highest average salary (higher than IIMA also). The obvious disadvantage is its being the last in the family of IIMs and hence alumni are not in a position to drive the placements. Students who get calls only from IIMI should join and not wait for next year for a better institute.
IIM-K
This also gets the advantage of being an IIM. However it suffers on account of its location, as Kozhikode has few industries worth its name. So, it might not be able to provide industry-interaction in higher dosages. It has also shifted to its own campus from the earstwhile operating campus of REC, thus scoring better in terms of infra. It has got one of the better libraries amongst the IIMs. Again the students are not as high as the other four older IIMs. There are three advantages of this; (a) this ensures that even if there are not many students, the ones who are there are good, (b) this enables faculty to give personal attention to students and finally, (c) it is never difficult to place a smaller batch irrespective of the job market in a year.
SPJ
The institute should be given preference above FMS. It is not affiliated to Mumbai University and is an autonomous institute. The reputation of the institute has been building up extremely well. The institute has several pluses to its credit. The biggest advantage is its location in Mumbai. The second advantage is its being fully residential and finally the structure of course it provides, it is very focused and you have the specialization from the beginning.
FMS
This is the best institute for general MBA in non-IIMs despite all its handicaps. It was an early starter and hence has a very strong alumni base, which makes its placements one of the best in the country. However it suffers on various counts like, it is not a fully residential program and hence unlike the IIMs here, the learning process is limited to college hours only. It doesn't have good infrastructure, hence not an ideal place for systems and IT related specialization. It is not an autonomous institute and hence suffers from the slow processes of university and is not very fast and flexible to incorporate changes. Inspite of these handicaps, the placements are excellent and hence it figures higher than MDI or JBIMS of this cluster.
MDI
This institute is very well known for its Executive Development programmes and the reputation is carried on to its eight year old MBA program as well. The institute scores high on infrastructure and faculty. The college has done good to catch with other older institutes and also has a student exchange program in place. The placements are good but not as good as FMS though this is possibly only because of the excellent alumni strength of FMS and is not a bearing on the standards at MDI.
JBIMS
This is again one of the better institutes for a general MBA program. It shares exactly similar limitations as that of FMS for the same reason of being affiliated to a University, in this case the Mumbai University. Another disadvantage is that since selection is through CET, it has 70% of the seats reserved for graduates of Mumbai University and also 50% of the total seats for reserved categories. Thus the selections is heavily biased and leads to a not so varied batch profile. The location in Mumbai and the age of the institute are the advantages ensuring better placements for the institute.
The date of CET for this academic season is not out yet! Thus virtually one who has a call from other institutes is definitely not going to wait for the CET to happen and should take up the B School already in hand.

Cluster3
The place under the sun: NMIMS > IMT > TAPMI > SIBM & SCMHRD > XIM B > GIM > Wellingkar > IMI > FORE > UBS > MFC > SIFT or IIFM

If and only if you don't have a call from any of the Cluster 1 and Cluster 2 institutes, should you come to Cluster 3. This includes the specialized institutes also. So even if u want to go to foreign trade, and have calls from FMS and SIFT or MDI and SIFT, you should take up FMS or MDI. This analysis applies to only those people who have to choose between two or more Cluster 3 institutes.
These entire institutes are more or less under the same category. The placements are satisfactory though not like Cluster 1 and Cluster 2 institutes. The order of the priority is mentioned above. Also in order to get good placements from these places you must do very well and make your mark either through academics or other activities. So go for these institutes only if you don't have any other option.
NMIMS, IMT & TAPMI
These three institutes are virtually at par and have good reputation in West, North and South respectively. NM should be preferred to others because its placements are better than the others as it is situated in the commercial capital of India - Bombay. Similarly IMT gains because of its proximity to Delhi. Being located in Manipal, TAPMI is not able to have high industry interaction and also most of the companies coming for placement are South based.
SIBM & SCMHRD
SIBM and SCMHRD are two of the better institutes of the SIMBY group having almost as many as 9 colleges in management area only. Now both are autonomous institutes and SCMHRD has also moved into a lavish new campus, thus overcoming its low ranking on infrastructure. SCMHRD also follows a very rigorous disciplined schedule including vipasna, yoga, community service etc. (its offer letter sounds more like a indictment letter). The proximity to Pune and Bombay ensures good placement. Should be selected strictly as per the hierarchy.
XIM B
The entrance is held through XLRI entrance. The institute has pretty good placements over the years. But it has the drawback of being in Bhubaneshwar.
GIM
The institute has very good faculty most of which is drawn from IIMs. However it is relatively new compared to other institutes. The other disadvantage it suffers is on account of its location in Goa. The placements are okay but not very good and low rankers might find a problem in placements.
Wellingkar
Wellingkar seems to have undergone a metamorphosis with it moving into a brand new building with infrastructure modeling on a futuristic classroom, all equipped with LCD and computers. Similar efforts are going on in brand building with a host of activities run round the year. It also has a student exchange programme in place. Obviously being in Mumbai does help in the placements.
IMI & FORE
The only advantages these institutes have are their location in Delhi, an autonomous programme and above average infrastructure. However these come with a pretty high fee. So while FORE might have a centrally air-conditioned building, it is also one of the costliest MBA programme. Maybe because of the cost involved some one may like to have a look at UBS and MFC.
UBS & MFC
Like FMS, these two are suffering from "University affiliation". Placements are okay in UBS and not so good in MFC.
SIFT
The institute specialises in foreign trade and is a good bet for those interested in export and import management. The name of SIMBY and proximity to Pune and Mumbai do spruce up its placements every year.
IIFM
Go for this institute only if you are very patient about your career growth. Placements are ok but most of them happening in government departments. A few corporates that use natural resources as their raw material also do participate in the placement.

[indiannari]

wish i had problems like these.........

[MavericK]

Originally Posted by indiannari

wish i had problems like these.........

i guess the thread starts with..."Luxury to choose B-Schools"

[xman]

very..very nice post....made for very interesting reading...

hope all u ppl have these wonderful decisions 2 make around this time nxt year...

i have just finished my usual roundup of the last cupla days posts....read prats' prep details...and kunal's and philip's....posted them to sum frends....

so howz da prep coming u all? i mean this early in the year...despite da season...despite evrything.......if ur dedicated ( as prats surely was)....u wud be going hammer-and-tongs at ur prep mat.

so howz it coming along???

PS: i cant have a post w/o lotsa smileys..against my philosophy in life so here goes-->

[Silken_Touch]

small doubt.
My friend has got k.g. somaiya (pardon the spelling, I dont know the exact name)
and he has his welingkar interview on the 8th june. He asked to find out for him whether he should go for it?

[nemesis_007]

Hi everyone,



These are some facts regarding placements(esp. summers 2004) at IIMB and IIMC that is my batch.





Why Calcutta is better than Bangalore?



Private Equity: IIM Calcutta became the first and only campus in India to break into the hallowed space of Private Equity with the participation of General Atlantic Partners, recently in news for the acquisition of GE operations in India. Only 1200 people across the world work or rather are considered capable enough of working in this field. GA Partners previously recruited only from Ivy League schools in the US.



Investment Banking: Now this is the interesting one. Although Bangalore claims to be equal or probably even better than Calcutta (so much for marketing!!!), a closer look reveals the real situation. Lets take it one by one



1. Lehman Brothers: While NY, London, Tokyo and HK offices all visit IIM Calcutta, only the Tokyo office visits IIM Bangalore. The NY office visited Bangalore for the first time this year and only did a video con at B

2. Merrill Lynch: ML does not visit IIM Bangalore. The ML they show in their recruiters list is actually DSP ML, the Indian arm of ML which of course also recruits from IIM C

3. Barclays Capital: Barclays picked up people for their foreign offices from IIM C while they picked up students for their Mumbai office from IIM B. Of course Barclays features in the recruiters list of both campuses but you can see the difference.

4. JP Morgan: The difference is simpler here! Both the London and the Hong Kong office visit IIM C while only London visits IIM B.

5. ING Investment Bank: Again ING investment bank visits only IIM Calcutta

6. IFC ( World Bank): visits only IIM Calcutta and not IIM Bangalore.

7. HSBC & DB: Visits both IIM C and IIM B although it may be noted that HSBC India doesn’t visit IIM B.



Hedge Funds: IIM C again became the first and only campus in India to have a hedge fund pick up students. Gartmore Hedge Funds recruited from IIM Calcutta. Any one in the industry will tell you that hedge funds is the next big thing in the Finance space



Placement Process: While IIM A and IIM B run spot offers in all slots after slot 0 IIM C is the only institute which runs a common offer across all slots. In a common offer round all offers are announced at the end of the round and you then decide which offer to accept whereas in a spot offer round you are out of the process as soon as you get an offer. Imagine you want company A but happen to get company B’s offer before you even go into an interview with A (which happens a lot of times with spot offers), you would have to take the offer from B and move out of the process. IIM C has never been about finishing placements as soon as possible but rather about getting the max number of people the jobs they truly desire.



Number of Offers: Lehman Brothers, JP Morgan, Barclays, HLL, Cognizant, IBM, ICICI Bank, KPMG, Accenture, EnY, PricewaterhouseCoopers, Merrill Lynch, Citibank, Deutsche Bank, Kotak Securities and Nokia recuited more number of interns from IIM C than IIM B. And remember we are only talking of big recruiters here. We believe you have sufficient extrapolation skills to figure out the scene with other companies.



IIM B’s Strategies: No such comparison is complete without the mention of B’s last ditch efforts to run the same number of companies as C in their slot 0 (Slot 0 is the premier slot given only to global consults and International I-Banks at IIM C). IIM B is absolutely willing to give companies like Technofast Consulting and DPWN (have u heard of them…???) slot 0. Clearly this is not IIM C’s style of working and we are proud of that. In fact most of the companies that B would show exclusive on their list would have been offered a lower slot at IIM C.



What you read in the Newspapers: We are sure you have read IIM B’s impressive looking placement reports and doubly sure that you must have figured out the real situation having read this report thus far. However one more thing that we would like to point out (forgive us for being finicky about this). IIM B has this fetish for quoting the numbers of offers that they have got in terms of foreign assignments (they are easier to fudge u c!), IIM C would always quote the number of accepts and that very much explains higher numbers that B quotes. We are also giving u the actual number of foreign offers made at IIM C and IIM B. While there were 54 offers at C, only 43 offers were made at B. you can check the official placement reports of both campuses to confirm this.

[whocarez]

Hmmm.. It was an enlightining post to say the least but would like an IIM-B student to respond.

[RINKU]

hi!

i totally agree with what nemesis has written.
but what i want to know from nemesis is that

say out of 100 student who get final calls from IIM B and IIM C and not from IIM A chooses IIM C.


any ways if i get the final calls from both then i wil choose IIMC!!!!!!!!!

CIAO

RINKU

[kunalrana999]

hi mr.nemesis,

first...a 2 post member speaking so much?
boss...are u part of this community at all or a member of IIM C marketing club??
Since u had challenged IIMB im responding in ur way...tit for tat
but i would make a sincere request to IIMC pagalguy community...lets not degenerate this discussion into a machli market!!!

anyways, since i was in spain during summers i dont hav all the info but lemme respond to some of the points raised by u....will write more after talking to my juniors....

Goldman Sachs the biggest i-bank does not go to IIM C

IIM B had foreign offers from ICICI and Citibank....did that happen at IIMC?

Your Barclays info is wrong...they come to B for both UK and India

IIMB had highest no. of offers from HSBC London, DB(NY, Singapore,London)

Kotak Investment Bank does not go to C

ICICI, HLL, CTS, LehMAnn Bros, IBM made highest no. of offers at IIMB

DHL is the parent company of DPWN

Technofast was not a day 0 company

will post more later....

also what about IIMC's exchange program...only 33 went abroad when they were citing 60+ in times of india
travelled extensively across europe and i met only IIMA guys!!!!
BTW IIMB has around 80+ seats available for exchange this year...including colleges like GSB, LBS, Fuqua Duke, UCLA, etc
Also another ~40 seats for people to do international projects in Singapore and Bangkok...called the IBP programme...
That means around 66% of the batch has an opportunity

more later,
adios,
Kunal

[the STIFFmaester]

Well I am sorry to see these threads emerging again this year. Same thing happened and the whole thing degenerated into a slugfest between students of ABC as a "my daddy strongest" contest. Seriously hoped that it wouldnt happen again this year but unfortunately it has.
I am not gonna waste any of my time or yours pitching IIMB's advantages and A and C's disadvantages. The camaraderia that I share with my collegues in A and C is too strong to let my start posting crap about them. All I want to say is that there is a whole load of crap in the previous post about IIMB which I am about to rectify.

1. Lehman NY, Tokyo AND Hong Kong visit IIMB. London does not. But Hong Kong DOES !!!!
And how the hell does it matter if Lehman NY choose to conduct their inteviews on video confrence ?????????? The fact of the matter is that THEY CAME !!! And they took some of our best students.

2. Dude, please check before u post such arbit crap .Barclays recruits for BOTH INDIA AND LONDON !!!!!!!! In fact rank 1 from IIMB Gaurav Agarwal is going to Barclays London at a senior level, not as an analyst. That is something Barclays has not done in ANY OTHER CAMPUS IN INDIA , recruiting someone at a senior level for summers.

3. HSBC recruits from India for both London and India. Again, I dont know who u are, but for heaven's sake check your facts before you post. In fact, HSBC has taken 7 people for London, which is the highest across campuses.

4. Technofast consulting was in day 1 in IIMB and not day 0, thank you very much. Again, check your source of info. And FYI, Technofast is as international as any. The posting is in Germany and London for 2.5 months.

5.Yes Merril Lunch visits IIMC and doesnt visit IIMB. But answer me this question .....
WHERE DOES THE LAST NAME IN INVESTMENT BANKING, GOLDMAN SACHS GO???????
And the answer of course, is IIMB.

6. 54 foriegn offers at IIMC v/s 43 at IIMB.... wont dispute that. But 54 offers for 260 students at IIMC and 43 offers for 185 students at IIMB. Now calculate percentages and decide for yourself.

7. DPWN is Deutch Post World Net, an international consultancy based in Germany. If you dont want to put them in day 0 , please be my guest.

8.Your post about IIMB's spot offer system is as bizarre as any i have heard. If someone here gets an offer, it is made to him on the spot and he can CHOOSE to sign out if he wants. Else, he can chOOSE to keep it on hand till the end of the slot and decide. Its entirely upto the student. Fancy imagination you have.

9. Yes, IFC doen not come to IIMB. I am so sorry all ye IIM hopefuls. If that is going to be the decideing factor, be my guest and choose another insti, but for heavens sake go through my post and see that all the other crap posted is just that ... CRAP !!!!

Again, I reiterate that fact that i do not want to see this degenerate into a mud slinging match, coz as B-School students much more is expected of us. That is why you will see that I have only refuted all these false claims and have not pointed out to another insti's flaws. I would appreciate it if we could maintain that decorum in this forum. As a senior member, I think I am entitled to make such a request.

Thank You

Nikhil

PS: Rinku that number you have quoted is also worng. I am NOT going to tell you how many ppl who got B and C and not A decided to go to B, coz that i snot my style. All I can tell you is pls check with your seniors as to the correct numbers. Then decide for yourself. As this is a public forum, I am not going to quote any numbers on this.