• 32 karma

Can someone give inputs please!

I am looking for alternatives to CAT and CAT-based MBAs.

What are the opportunities in quant. fin. at the top IBanks after a master's at ISI?

1. How many of those charterholders are non-MBAs? Moreover, if you're already in the profession, obviously then CFA is going to be of some value, if not nothing. But I doubt if it would be as much as a value-add as an MBA.

2. Yes that is a better path perhaps.

3. It's all about alumni currently working at the banks. Brand-building made it sure that those banks go to ABC. And a couple of lakhs means nothing to them, think in dollars. They want to make sure that they have a person of extraordinary calibre, that's it.

4. It's about being JEE cleared. The brand value of IIT is built upon JEE and your JEE rank. It has nothing to do with knowledge in finance, but people assuming that the top CSE/EE guys at IITs are capable of doing anything. Again you're talking logic, but in the market things are driven by market sentiment and not necessarily logic.

5. It's because it's just one exam and not many employers know about it yet. It's just about cramming up theory and models, and concept-wise FRM is not very useful. The Schweser notes are extremely dense and if you wish to understand everything you need an year to prepare; otherwise you can cram it up within 3 months.

6. Check out the co.s that appear at your MBA college. If they're good, then it's a good profile, else again it doesn't mean much on its own. The reason being: employers don't have much time in their off-campus placements, and the guys who join from campus rarely leave because these are the best jobs in the market in terms of money.

7. Yes ISI is specifically stats oriented, but please check out the placements.

8. True, but only if you are settled in the profession. Else not.

Thank you, this has been a very comprehensive reply. I appreciate your efferts and time. I would be very grateful if you can provide insight on a few more subjects:

1) There are only 500 charter CFA holders in India, and all are doing good, so how can a person clearing CFA L3 and working for 4 years cannt find a good position after getting the CFA designation?

2) Ofcourse MS Financial Engineering or MBA is a must, but should someone clear CFA L2 and then do MS financial Engineering?

3) Demand and supply might suggest that IIM-ABC wants a high pay if someone with MBA from not a top college with CFA and FRM can do the same job in 1/2 the amount why will company not take him? IIM ABS are not demi-Gods, they are consistantly hardworking persons though and they will not settle for a salary less than 15-20 lac in India.

4) Being in IIT Grad in no case related to this discussion its is all about how good you are at Finance esp quant and stat. So how do u say IIT Engg grad will jump into finance and CFA+MBA will not (Good college are there like XLRI, SPJain, and other private ones)? I dont understand the comparison of CFA level 2/3 clearant with an IITian, this is finance so how can IIT Grad directly jump in this area?

5) If you believe that FRM is tough, it is obvious that it is tough for all, and with the tougness and less people it is a useful exam if one wants to go in risk. Then how can that exam be downplayed?

6) CFA level 3 + FRM level 2 people are very less and also CFA degisnation holders are quite less; I dont think after doing both one will have any problem when he has a good MBA and knows the concept well. And the path starts from Level 1&2 so why not move in this direction?

7) ISI is the best college for Quantitative and Statistics in India, so I believe the best Math and Stat with economics goes on that place, IIT dont stand in that regard. Though IITs Applied Math courses are brilliant.

8 )In a long term its about knowledge and skills, CFA seems to be a good exam to learn with the best material a superb community, so does it not seems to be only way ahead?

For Seniors:
Please comment on FRM for Investment banking?
Comment on the number of CFA Level 3 and CFA desig holders in India. I think level 1 holders are very very common, just wondering on L3 and CFAs.
Comment on CFM l3 + Frm l2 candidates
  • 1 Like  

The only high-probability path to investment banking is through an MBA. CFA alone can almost never lead you to investment banking. And at an MBA too, only the top-notch IIMs (as far as India is concerned) - read A/B/C and L at the maximum. First of all, be assured that there are hardly any real front-end investment banking operations in India and most of the work is back-end. I've heard that SBI offers proper IB (front-end) profiles in the IIMs, but they pay only 6-7 lpa.

Even at A/B/C, there is absolutely no guarantee that you're going to get a so-called "i-banking" profile. The competition is really tough and unless you are {from the IITs with a good JEE rank and with preferably some experience in analytics} OR {you're a hot female} you cannot crack the summers, and the final placements are mostly dependent on the summers, but here the latter factor doesn't count .

Progress in CFA gives an IITian (or other good Engg. college alumni) an edge over others, nothing more. Even then he can screw up in the interview.

In the light of all this, I am assuming that you know what "investment banking" means. :drinking:

For your specific questions:

1. No, FRM has almost nothing to do with i/b. It's more about risk and its various types. Guys in credit profiles can also go for it. But it's damn tough, much more than L1 or even L2. The happy part - you can take it in two parts now, and the pass rates are >50%. So a bad paper can lead to a pass but that will never happen in CFA. In CFA, in fact the reverse can happen (i.e. even a good paper can lead you to a fail)

2. MS in QF from abroad (best), or campus placements at IITs (only for CSE/EE people). However as a general rule, a profile abroad will almost always be better than a Mumbai/Bangalore posting from the IITs.

I think that ISB has also started something at CAF, but no idea about its placements.

3. I have no idea about placements at ISI. But if I-banks go there for placements, a good bachelors' background (again IITs/other good Engg. colleges) would be of help. But in all likelihood, I-banks would be picking up for their quant profiles from there.

4. "Top 100 MBA" colleges in India is nothing. If you graduate from Baba Ram Chand College of Management from Kanpur, an L3 is going to get you nowhere. In fact I wonder if recruiters might ask you what you're doing there with an L3. :drinking:

5. CFA is not supposed to make you a specialist in a particular area, even though it is somewhat geared around Equity and Asset Management. It only gives you an edge at campus placements. Therefore, its market value is there only in a particular setting and there is no general market value for it.

Ask yourself why people opted to go for CFA. The reason was because it gave you an edge few years ago, when most people did not know about it. Currently, L1 candidates are surely running into tens of thousands and several thousand of those are clearing L1. L2 cleared would also be into a few thousands. Even if a company were to consider someone on that basis, they would look for IITians. But the problem is that now even within IITians, there are thousands of IITians with L1 and several hundreds with L2. A hearsay said that for one position at Nomura, those guys get more than 8000 resumes.

The only scenario where you can land up in a GOOD position (by good I mean decently paying- nothing to do with the actual work) without an MBA would be when you're a CSE/EE graduate from the IITs with

Hey thank you for the insight, then what is in your view the path to investment banking?

Is FRM better than CFA for investment banking?
What is the path to get in Quantitative Finance?
Is the only path a M Stat from ISI?
Or the path to go in Quant Fin starts out of India?
If CFA all levels are the most fundamntal, for a non finance background is it not something to start with?
What does your experience says about the market value of CFA?
What do you believe is the salary range for CFA level 3 cleared person + MBA from any top 100 College of India?

please answer these questions, thanking you in advance

The summer examination is over and time for another season of CFA registrations for December.

For the fellow puys registering for higher levels (L2 and beyond), you would already be aware of the market value and the issues involved in the pursuit of the CFA program. If not, then it's something to worry about! :nono:

I would request fellow puys not to blindly follow the herd. India has been swept away by something like a CFA wave and to cash in on that, there are some stupid institutes ready to offer you coaching as well. And people dream of getting into I-Banks and believe that there is some kind of a "salary range" for "each level". Be assured, all parties except the candidates are minting money and you're being fooled in all this.

In fact, even the CFA curriculum has nothing to do with Investment Banking. L1 is just basic concepts, L2 is about equity and derivatives pricing and valuation basics and L3 is about asset management. I-Banking is nowhere in the picture. If you're looking for learning something about quantitative finance, CFA has almost nothing there as well except for the most basic fundamentals.

  • 1 Like  

I am sorry to post something different here... out of context. But I don't know where else to post.

Can someone tell me a good book for DI?

I am doing Quantum CAT for Quants, TMH for English, both good books. But the DI TMH was totally useless.

Please suggest a good book. Or what else is the way. I am pursuing TIME and their material is nothing compared to their AIMCATs.

I am facing problems in DI (especially LR, tournament type of problems) because of a lack of adequate practice and got stuck in 2009 because of that.

Commenting on this post has been disabled.

Add me to the study group too.... am from Gurgaon :cheerio:

Commenting on this post has been disabled.

This is a hugely expensive examination.... a goddamn 1300$ for Level-1!

I am already pursuing CFA (appeared for Level-2) and some people were talking about FRM. Thought FRM was more focussed so perhaps this could be an alternative to FRM.

Commenting on this post has been disabled.

Finally another call... was getting really disappointed.

CAT 09:
OA : 99.65
QA: 99.06
VA: 99.38
DI: 93.53 :banghead:

10: 92.8%
+2: 89.8%
BTech: 5.6 :banghead:
WEx: 23 months as of now

CAT 09: OA : 99.65 QA: 99.06 VA: 99.38 DI: 93.53 :banghead:
Calls: K (List 2) Rok Rnc (List 2)
Rejects: K :drinking:
Not going to attend: Rok Rnc

  • 1 Like  

I too faced that question about an year back, and felt that I wouldn't do an MBA. But then I realised that all good jobs in Finance demand an MBA. CFA can only be supplementary.

Commenting on this post has been disabled.

At 99.65 had just one call, that too in second list. Not converted, thanks to a 5.6/10 in graduation. So no confusion over whether to go to IIMK this year or not.

Aiming for a C next year