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FMS admissions under scanner, CIC asks Dean to reveal process

This development has far reaching consequences for admissions at Indian b-schools with the possibility of a lot more students filing RTI requests at institutes such as the Indian Institutes of Management (IIMs) and other b-schools which fall under the RTI Act. According to the CIC notice, FMS has also revealed that the marks for group discussion, extempore and interview are not tabulated separately. The CIC has directed the institute’s Public Information Officer (PIO) to provide details of this process stating that the marks for these three are not on record.

At FMS, a common panel of faculty members conducts the process of evaluating students in the admissions process followed after the written test. The admissions panel does maintain a worksheet in which faculty enter their observations for candidates and marks are allotted to candidates after panel members arrive at a consensus. Prof JK Mitra, Dean at FMS and the deemed PIO, declined to comment on this issue.

The RTI request was filed by a current student at the institute who had topped the FMS entrance test conducted in 2008 but had been unsuccessful in securing a seat in the coveted MBA Full Time program at the institute. Nitesh Duhan told PaGaLGuY.com, “I subsequently enrolled in the batch of 2010 of the FMS MBA – MS (Management of Services) program but wished to know my score in the interview in order to understand why I had not been selected for the full time MBA program even after being the top ranker in the entrance test.” Duhan received the PIO’s response which stated that the requested information cannot be provided and appealed to the Delhi University registrar who is the First Appelate Authority (FAA) for this case.

The CIC has ruled that the PIO must send details of the admissions process and state that separate marks are not maintained for group discussion, interview and extempore by June 15, 2009. The Commission also states in its notice, “All officers in public authority are required to understand that they are bound to obey the laws and structures thereof. It appears that Prof JK Mitra (Dean-FMS) has taken a position to defy the orders of the FAA under RTI.”

According to the CIC notice, Prof Mitra is guilty of not responding within 30 days as per the requirement of the RTI Act. It adds that as he has not obeyed the orders of his superior officer, it raises a doubt that the denial of information may also be in bad faith. Prof Mitra is also required to appear before the commission on July 9, 2009 and explain why he should not be penalized for failing to respond as per the RTI guidelines and pay the penalty as per section 20 (1).

The RTI was filed on April 7, 2008 and the PIO had responded on May 6, 2008 and said that the details could not be furnished because “the information asked by the applicant is not made available to candidates and disclosure of the same to the appellant can be objected to by the candidates concerned.” The institute had earlier provided a copy of the merit lists for accepted and waitlisted candidates for the MBA – MS program even though the information requested by the RTI was the breakup of scores for the MBA full time program.

Duhan approached the FAA on June 3, 2008 to appeal against the PIO response and the FAA ruling on July 21, 2008 directed the institute to provide the information by July 31, 2008 so that Duhan could have the details by August 14, 2008. The process of securing the breakup of marks proved to be long with the institute only responding to Duhan on March 31, 2009 with information but these details were not in the required format. The information provided then was the marks breakup for all candidates who cleared the FMS written test conducted in 2008 and their overall score across the remaining stages of the admissions process.

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Comments (30)

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juventus2
#1 June 09, 2009, 9:13 am

Well After going through the FMS interview process myself I also feel that there is a lack of transparency in the overall process. But again it is also the case with many b-schools. On one hand disclosing marks would lead to clarity of the process and on the other it would make the process more mechanical, as the judgement during the interview many a times cannot be translated into exact numbers for such a large number of students.

dds
#2 June 09, 2009, 9:23 am

not only fms..even xlri do not come wid scores of gd/pi…dey jst declare wether a person is selected or rejected..

takeNoPrisoners
#3 June 09, 2009, 10:11 am

kudos to the fellow who filed the RTI.Such transparency is needed to reveal the admissions process of b schools,most of which are shrouded in mystery.

apatchofsnow
#4 June 09, 2009, 11:18 am

A very welcome development indeed. Having gone through the process this year, I felt the number of DU/NSIT/DCE guys offered admissions is disproportionate.
Hope we have some clarity

rahul4IIMA
#5 June 09, 2009, 2:09 pm

Good Job bro! I did the same thing last year..and the college in question was one of the most reputed colleges of Mumbai!
It did reveal some astonishing results and eventually I did not appear for that college's GD/PI this year…
@apatchofsnow- this is for u bro- Why NSIT/DCE guys get selected disproportianately- Coz in any case ..whether it be IIMs or XL..
10-25% of the batch is from DCE/NSIT…10% is the minimum I can think of with all practicality!Check out the XLs batch profile this year and u will know how disproportionate can it get!
FMS being the best B-School of Delhi, DCE/NSIT being the best engineering college in delhi..delhi guys are more passionate to make through FMS and FMS profs are more aware of the meritocracy of DCE/NSIT guys….

bhavukkuldeep
#6 June 09, 2009, 4:54 pm

the selection process must be transparent.
the case should be an eye opener for such B-schools

pawannayak
#7 June 09, 2009, 6:06 pm

pawannayak- I got 100 %ile in 2008 and was called for GD-PI. But the behaviour of interview panelists were hostile. They refused to listen my answers to technical questions. During GD their behaviour was weird. They selected most of DCE.NSIT/DU guys. Even in 2009, I got 99.66 %ile but not even called for GD-PI. They even not entertained my RTI query.

pawannayak
#8 June 09, 2009, 6:10 pm

Its not true that DCE/NSIT guys are best. i have seen their grads percentages and also their obnoxious attitud during GD-PI process. You wont' believe, all DCE guys were below 70 % on an avg. So, selecting DCE/NSIT guy in FMS is not on the basis of merit but prejudiced.

sajjansin
#9 June 10, 2009, 5:01 am

let us also remember the history when possibly two past directors of FMS were found to be guilty of wrong admission of their wards.
@rahul4IIMA; you are congratulating the others but not disclosing the name of Mumbai College. MBAs and ethics is being hotly debated and you carry IIMA.

china9
#10 June 10, 2009, 5:45 am

this is a great development….i hope it's replicated across b-schools…

amrit4646
#11 June 10, 2009, 6:31 am

Even I was only called for MBA MS interview and not for mba ft ,whereas many candidates with lesser percentile than me in all sections were called and subsequently selected in that course(ft).. When i enquired about the same, they said its our mistake, we're sorry :-(
I didn't lodged any complaint knowing the results beforehand and also that took admission in an IIM. . Thats great on the part of the guy who took this initiative. :-)
they say their process is very transparent but we all know how transparent it is..

hemantkakkar
#12 June 10, 2009, 8:07 am

Adding to these thoughts there is also any transparency regarding the breakage of marks for final selection. What percentage of GD/PI and written marks actually make up for final admission. My experience was almost the same, having faired well in written exam and after decent gd/pi, I was atleast expecting my name in waiting list. I seriously believe there is lack of transparency and its time to lift the veil and look at the backstage drama.Thanks to this initiative we will get to know the actual ground realities.

Indiana Jones
#13 June 10, 2009, 4:53 pm

Regarding the high number of DCE/NSIT ians, the proportion of applicants from these colleges are pretty high – its after all their home university, and the final ratio, I believe, is in line with the ratio of applications at the start….I personally know of a lot of CAT-takers from Chennai, who did not apply to FMS. This might be the reason why the disproportionate-cycle was formed…
But it does help to know what exactly the splits were in the GD/PI processes, a la NMIMS….

belldcet2008
#14 June 11, 2009, 12:52 pm

dats a gud initiative…bravo!!!, ,even in UPSC civil service exam..same thing happened..n now hv made d process more transparent..hope same thing happens here as well…

kamleshwar13
#15 June 12, 2009, 7:31 am

Its shocking guys…close to 40% of students in class of 2009&2010 are from NSIT/DCE/DU…
May be they have some hidden reservation kind of thing for these students..no offence..jst an opinion..
But now it should clear all the clouds if they release the breakup like IIM's…

kamleshwar13
#16 June 12, 2009, 7:41 am
monk4lif
#17 June 12, 2009, 6:34 pm

even on obc reservation dr s sthing fishy….dis year most of OBC students who got selected are financially very strong..n don fit in 4.5 lakh criteria …FMS hav 't don proper scrutinizing of their candidature & leave many deserving OBC students with nthin….. there shud be a RTI against this issue as well….

sameer3105
#18 June 13, 2009, 6:43 am

I feel that the overall process of GD/PI at FMS has very little weightage attached to it.After a fantastic interview for MBA ft,many have been rejected over the years.I was just one of them this year:)Lets hope something something better comes out of this time around and they reveal the breakups from next year.

dhirajbhagat
#19 June 13, 2009, 6:54 pm

well, being a du student myself i have seen many back door entries in many reputed colgs.. dat wud mean a lot of meritorious students missing it out due to this.

the guy who filed the RTI has done an incredible work and setup a path we all can follow if we see any discrepancies from now on..

mayankg
#20 June 14, 2009, 3:57 pm

I will like to put my two cents on the discussion that DU/NSIT/DCE guys get undue advantage or preferance in case of FMS,this statement is totally FALSE..I myself being part of DU have seen that the main reason for these guys forming a major chunk of batch is bcoz of their dedication and passion for becoming a part of FMS.And I knw many classmates who get calls for interview,and only the BEST and deserving from those become a part of the final selection list…I agree that transparency in GD/PI process of FMS needs to be answered as the distribution is not well defined.Lets hope that the process gets transparent so that nobody can raise questions on the selection.

cool.macho7
#21 June 15, 2009, 11:56 am

Do crosscheck,
Most of the FMS candidates are from delhi or DCE.
Hardly anyone from other cities?
Is a justified?

kamleshwar13
#22 June 16, 2009, 8:43 am

@mayankg, So you wnt to say only DU/NSIT/DCE guys put dedication and passion for becoming a part of FMS…and other guys just do a timepass :D very funny dude..pls check fms website and u'll get the answer wat is true and waat is false :)

swamy.dce
#23 June 18, 2009, 5:40 pm

?

goodman
#24 June 19, 2009, 5:25 am

well..i was part of both fms mba and ms gd/pi processthis year..bt i didnt even got in the final waiting list..that was disappointing for me..so when i checked on their site for other candidates who got selected..their score was even lower than me..there were some in my group as well and their gd wasnt that well…bt finally they got selected or were in waiting list..and there were too many ppl from delhi and too few outstation candidates…whatever it is ,they should come up with more transparent process

amrit4646
#25 June 19, 2009, 8:35 am

Really unfair.

cooldev007
#26 June 19, 2009, 4:39 pm

@kamleshwar13
Yaar let me tell u sm facts about NSIT/DCE. This year from
NSIT we had two 100 % in CAT, more than 55 final conversion. and this is frm NSIT alone, Dont know about DCE(I am frm NSIT)
and regarding % @pawanayak bhai we have work really hard to get over 70 % my college topper has arround 82 where as my branch has jst 78, now out 440 student hardly 15-20 % have more thn 70%
so its no wonder tht most of thm had less thn 70
one of my frnd has jst 60.1% marks and he got selected in IIM A,C
I am just trying to say that a large no of people every year frm NSIT/DCE clear FMS and other exams , thts why they are selected in large no

ketce
#27 June 20, 2009, 4:32 am

I have gone through FMS process this year and I must say I was really hopeful of getting through but did not. God knows how they judge people in such short interviews. I know in IIMS and XL also there's a lot of hidden things which we don't know but generally their interviews are longer and hence I believe might be allowing them to judge candidate better. Anyhow this development also paves the way for me to know why I wasn't selected.

divyapunj
#28 June 20, 2009, 5:05 am

Hi,
My 2 cents ( or paise if you may prefer) on this.

FMS has an interesting selection criteria, which is missed by a lot of people.

1> The SOP( statement of purpose). Which is sent in with the application form.
2> Entrance exam which has almost 240 Questions(please forgive me if get the approximate number wrong).

3> Group Discussion.
4> An Elocution round.
5> Interview.

Now gentlemen, I see no one discussing the need for a good SOP here. My belief is that, SOP has a good amount of weightage too. I had the opportunity to know of a few SOP, that the candidates had written, and they themselves would know, if it was a real effort or a run of the mill "I want a good job, and MBA will get that for me." thing.

Trust me SOP is the make or break factor here. This is my belief.

Next comes the GD. I had the good fortune to be a part of a group which was so very civilized that even a person who would stammer, could make his point twice. Simultaneously there was another group, under pressure who just made a fish market out of it.

Next came Extempore. I got a weird topic, and I refused to speak (conveyed this by my expression to the panel), until given more specifics.

Next came the interview. And it was all from my SOP. I did not have the "exports of india", "the ports of india", sort of questions. They were from Quantitative finance.

At the end it was more of an interactive conversation, where the panel tried to push me around. I refused to be pushed around at all, and then we both understood each other, hence the rest of the flow was smooth, PRIMARILY because of my SOP. I gave them an area where we both could have had an intelligent conversation.

My question to all who are disputing the results of FMS is, gentlemen please introspect and let me know:—

"Why do you want to do an MBA at this time of life? How does this education align with your short term and long-term goals?, and how would an MBA at FMS help you achieve them?"

Word Limit 1000 words.

I believe we all have our answers.

Screw the dean
#29 July 21, 2009, 10:03 pm

@ Divya Punj. Dear divya, good GYAAN on SOP and other stuff , so u think that other guys do now prepare their SOP well, and about your selection dude, send a thank you card to Arjun singh that even after getting a score as low as 226 in the written exam you made it to the campus, dude the list for gen cat ends at 230. So plz dont through ur shit at the web. Keep a reality chk and write an essay for only 100 words , which coll u would have been pissing around if the OBC quota for so called under priviledged burdens would have not been forced.
Chill dude, lets have a healthy discussion here, no GYAAN please
and guys from DCE/NSIT seriously makes a disproportionate no at FMS , there are at max 1000 students in these 2 colleges so a selection of more than 30 out of these clearly shows the fish. also not everybody at DCE/NSIT go for MBA. and this yr almost 90,000 students sit for the exam for a total of 210 seats
have a reality chk boss, and do some serious introspection, for you wont get any undue advantage in corporate world

Abhinav
#30 November 12, 2009, 3:08 am

@divya: u r such a juvenile… do u know tat bcoz of govt of india there is an implicit reservation of 33% for girls… no good insti…read iims or xlri hv more than 20 % batch as females…( check it…for past ten years u cunt)…n if tat bastard son of bitch J.K. Mitra happens to be in my way then he is dead..

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